Posts by Half banana

18

OT - Pork was unclean... NT Now it's not?

by pleaseresearch in

this always baffled me.

either pork is unclean and wrong to eat forever, or it was a load of bull to begin with..

Half banana

Doesn't matter what it is but any community taboo unites people driven to carry it out.

3

Idée fixe

by Half banana in

i am in france at the moment and hence this french expression used in english speaking psychiatry crossed my mind: the expression is idée fixe (pron.

eeday fix).

this describes the condition in an individual who holds an obsessive attachment to a point of view which is unresponsive to reason and argument.

I am in France at the moment and hence this French expression used in English speaking psychiatry crossed my mind: the expression is idée fixe (pron. eeday fix). This describes the condition in an individual who holds an obsessive attachment to a point of view which is unresponsive to reason and argument.

There must be some comfort in arriving at this psychotic position. Once adopted everything is sorted.................

For example being implacably convinced that the Bible is the true source of divine instruction and that seven men in JW headquarters MUST be the link between God and us and that Armageddon is coming any moment now and will kill off unbelievers and leave the world to us who are the only true believers. I have every reason to want to believe this, without this hope my life is worthless.......

Is the JW organisation filled with members suffering (or enjoying) a collective idée fixe?

Perhaps a psychologist here might be able to expand?

29

Do any of the governing body of JWs exercise their conscience?

by Half banana in

the members of the governing body, by being at the reins of a large corporation, must be confronted with situations which force them to think about the validity of their doctrines.. the australian royal commission hearing must have highlighted for the gb, especially jackson, the rational inconsistency of using an iron age dictum of "two witnesses" in a world which has moved beyond such rough justice.

today we have a scientific approach, we examine forensically, we have psychologists who can tell us about individual's minds and behaviour.

today, children's voices are not ignored.. the first and last resort of jws and their leaders is the doctrine of the "inerrancy of the bible".

Half banana

Good points Listener, it seems to be a watertight system! Smug, smug, smug, God only blesses us!

It is of course hard to imagine the interior monologue of one of the GB members.

My theory is that only those who have ditched their conscience for worldly glory can accept the poisoned chalice which comes with being top dog in the Watchtower cult.

As I see it, and tell me if I am wrong, the GB members feel inordinately honoured to belong to this elite club. They have a task handed down to them which they are honour bound to fulfil without scruple. It is that they have to convince their flock for the duration of their incumbency that Armageddon is immediately about to happen.

Only if they succeed in doing this will the cult survive.Their success as members of this club is measured by the increase in number of subscribers to this confidence trick.

15

Wriggling Like A Worm On A Hook???

by Disassociated Lady 2 in

just been reading this week's study article for the jws:.

imagine that an experienced guide is leading you on a tour of a wondrous and beautiful city.

the city is new to you and to those with you, so you hang on to the guide’s every word.

Half banana

JWs indeed are worms, they certainly are hooked and to wriggle is their way of life.

I like the Bible propaganda quoted that God's Kingdom is a "city built on true foundations". It is only where there is a fantasy city as the subject when anyone would try to convince the reader that it has "true foundations."

Any bunch of tourists would probably lynch the GB as tourist guides. One hundred and thirty seven years of getting everything wrong.

14

If Abraham had gone to Kingdom of Heaven, why not John the Baptist?

by anointed1 in

jesus rated john the baptist as the greatest “among those born of women” (luke 7:28) hence after his death he should naturally go to heaven—especially so lesser ones like enoch, abraham are already in the kingdom of heaven.

(hebrews 11: 5, 6; 13-16).

in view of the direct statement of jesus: “i say to you that many will come from the east and the west to share the banquet with abraham, isaac, and jacob in the kingdom of heaven” (mathew 8:11), people like abraham are definitely in heaven.

Half banana

Crazy Guy, the Osiris story is so complex that it is not worth unravelling the mythology to answer a question here. The characters also morph into other characters and become yet others under different circumstances. Horus is one big shape-shifter. Where Horus, as the friend of the dead, raised "Our friend Osiris (his father), Jesus says "Our friend Lazarus" [ is raised]. Lazarus translates El Osiris. Read Gerald Massey on the subject.

Most of the Bible is borrowed holy magic!

When you look it up on the internet, Christians naturally are determined not to see such comparisons and have responded with an outrightly dismissive stance which can dominate the information on the subject.

All doctrines and beliefs have a pedigree and the Jesus story does not arise for the first time in the Bible. The virgin born, wonder working, saviour god-man with twelve disciples was a stock character of ancient myth and existed before Jesus. For me that alone is enough to dismiss the Christian Jesus as being divine.

14

If Abraham had gone to Kingdom of Heaven, why not John the Baptist?

by anointed1 in

jesus rated john the baptist as the greatest “among those born of women” (luke 7:28) hence after his death he should naturally go to heaven—especially so lesser ones like enoch, abraham are already in the kingdom of heaven.

(hebrews 11: 5, 6; 13-16).

in view of the direct statement of jesus: “i say to you that many will come from the east and the west to share the banquet with abraham, isaac, and jacob in the kingdom of heaven” (mathew 8:11), people like abraham are definitely in heaven.

Half banana

What we need Van is not a commentary but facts. The personas of John and Jesus are fully pagan dating back perhaps to the origin of writing but certainly described in Egypt by two thousand four hundred BCE.

Jesus has saved not one person from death and cannot, less still can any character arising from literature resurrect anyone.

Sorry to try and burst your bubble but it's about time in the twenty first century we to come to terms with the fact that there is a yawning gulf between old wives' tales and truth.

14

If Abraham had gone to Kingdom of Heaven, why not John the Baptist?

by anointed1 in

jesus rated john the baptist as the greatest “among those born of women” (luke 7:28) hence after his death he should naturally go to heaven—especially so lesser ones like enoch, abraham are already in the kingdom of heaven.

(hebrews 11: 5, 6; 13-16).

in view of the direct statement of jesus: “i say to you that many will come from the east and the west to share the banquet with abraham, isaac, and jacob in the kingdom of heaven” (mathew 8:11), people like abraham are definitely in heaven.

Half banana

From the most superficial look at the Jewish acceptance of heaven as a reward; by the time of 2 Maccabees the heroine mother of her seven tortured and executed sons refers to both the mythical Moses and to heaven's hope as a justification for suffering the most excruciating torture and death. Incidentally they were scalped, hands and feet removed and then fried to death still defending their faith. Over egging the cake somewhat to make the point that heaven is the answer to everything humans have to put up with.

This Greek text comes from the late second century BCE well into the Classical period. By this time Judaism had become more cosmopolitan and less insular because of the exposure to foreign thought introduced by their political masters and in Greek speaking Egypt: the new Mediterranean philosophical discourse.

Four and a half centuries earlier, the Jews were ruled by the Persians after 539 BCE and that would have introduced the polarized ideology of heaven and hell through Zoroastrianism. Those tenets would have been in the Jewish consciousness but not expressed as a canonical belief until the second century BCE. (If you will allow Maccabees to be canonical and that we are only talking about heaven).

It was probably in Greek Alexandria on the Mediterranean coast of Egypt, the most cosmopolitan city in the world in the last centuries BCE, where the fusion of Greek thought and Jewish messianism met and melded. The population of Alexandria remarkably, was one third Jewish and like the rest of the city's inhabitants; progressive, open minded, intellectual in outlook and not at all traditional.

There were a number of pre-Jesus messianic sects of Jewish origin and one of the threads of belief is seen in the Maccabees with reference to extreme suffering for immortal rewards in heaven. Jewish belief never originally looked to heaven or indeed masochism, yet these ideals were adopted with rigour in the early church.

"Self-denial" became the model Christian ethos, become a slave of Christ, don't reason; grovel to your masters instead, and go to heaven.

This new religious tack led to the creation of saints, self flagellation and eventually to Monasticism. Which reinforced its total power by hellish threats and heavenly rewards . By so doing it added an enormous damper to creativity and progress in the cloistered medieval world. Thank God for the Renaissance! (But I digress)

14

If Abraham had gone to Kingdom of Heaven, why not John the Baptist?

by anointed1 in

jesus rated john the baptist as the greatest “among those born of women” (luke 7:28) hence after his death he should naturally go to heaven—especially so lesser ones like enoch, abraham are already in the kingdom of heaven.

(hebrews 11: 5, 6; 13-16).

in view of the direct statement of jesus: “i say to you that many will come from the east and the west to share the banquet with abraham, isaac, and jacob in the kingdom of heaven” (mathew 8:11), people like abraham are definitely in heaven.

Half banana

Vanderhoven, most of the OT saints are also mythological, clearly Abel, Noah, Melchizedek etc are. Isaak, Jacob and co. were all made up as a foundational myth to legitimise the nationhood of Israel. The Kings of Israel before Hezekiah were made up as were the conflicting genealogies of Jesus.

Look, we are talking fairyland when we ascribe unknowable possibilities to fictional characters.

The key to this matter is to find out when and how and where the idea of "heaven" entered the religious consciousness.

Any reward by heavenly existence is certainly not given mention in the OT. To die old and satisfied (at an absurd age) was the ideal for patriarchs.The dream of the Jewish hope, as a landless people, lay in nationalism as a path to plenty, not in a mysterious afterlife.

14

If Abraham had gone to Kingdom of Heaven, why not John the Baptist?

by anointed1 in

jesus rated john the baptist as the greatest “among those born of women” (luke 7:28) hence after his death he should naturally go to heaven—especially so lesser ones like enoch, abraham are already in the kingdom of heaven.

(hebrews 11: 5, 6; 13-16).

in view of the direct statement of jesus: “i say to you that many will come from the east and the west to share the banquet with abraham, isaac, and jacob in the kingdom of heaven” (mathew 8:11), people like abraham are definitely in heaven.

Half banana

Anointed 1, a person could spend many human lifetimes trying to make the Bible consistent. It can't be done!

You must forget reason and have faith brother..............

As an alternative you could study in only one or two lifetimes, the background to the texts, mythos, ethnology, politics and cultic imperatives which are embraced by the Bible.

The fiction of Jesus is demonstrated by the very ancient history of the tale of the God-man hero.

In fact the very word 'hero' comes from the name of the son of the Egyptian Sun God 'Horus' who was as the myth relates, by virgin birth was born in midwinter of Osiris and his wife Isis Meri. Apart from Horus being an itinerant teacher, healer of the sick, raiser of the dead, he had twelve disciples and was baptised by his cousin Anup who was six months older than himself. The Egyptian name Anup not surprisingly translates as John in Hebrew.

So when Jesus "says" something in the Bible it is not him speaking, he never spoke, he never existed, nobody remembered seeing him or recorded his words.

No it was the Christ-cult leadership who embroidered and re-spun the old tales of the God-man hero.

29

Do any of the governing body of JWs exercise their conscience?

by Half banana in

the members of the governing body, by being at the reins of a large corporation, must be confronted with situations which force them to think about the validity of their doctrines.. the australian royal commission hearing must have highlighted for the gb, especially jackson, the rational inconsistency of using an iron age dictum of "two witnesses" in a world which has moved beyond such rough justice.

today we have a scientific approach, we examine forensically, we have psychologists who can tell us about individual's minds and behaviour.

today, children's voices are not ignored.. the first and last resort of jws and their leaders is the doctrine of the "inerrancy of the bible".

Half banana

The members of the governing body, by being at the reins of a large corporation, must be confronted with situations which force them to think about the validity of their doctrines.

The Australian Royal Commission hearing must have highlighted for the GB, especially Jackson, the rational inconsistency of using an Iron Age dictum of "two witnesses" in a world which has moved beyond such rough justice. Today we have a scientific approach, we examine forensically, we have psychologists who can tell us about individual's minds and behaviour. Today, children's voices are not ignored.

The first and last resort of JWs and their leaders is the doctrine of the "Inerrancy of the Bible". It is a belief which is unsubstantiated by fact. When pitched against rational thinking and practice, the Bible comes out as completely out of date and virtually useless.

I really wonder how many of the GB know this?

Who will be the next to resign as a matter of conscience?